I became interested in podcasts largely due to a fascination I developed with documentary radio programs airing on public radio. Having not grown up listening to an NPR station, I wanted to go back into the archives of some of the shows I was hearing for the first time as an adult. I quickly discovered that many programs had already or were in the process of publishing complete episodes of both past and future broadcasts online via podcasts. In a recent study on the motivations of podcast listeners, McClung & Johnson (2010) point out that NPR was a leader in the podcast movement, making it “easier for listeners to catch up on content by creating podcasts based on topic-specific selections where listeners can hear segments from multiple shows in a single program.” I soon discovered that Apple’s iTunes, along with several other sources, were developing huge libraries of quality audio (and in some cases video) podcasts. It struck me that many of the programs making their way to the iTunes top ten list either featured comedy or were produced and distributed by well-known comic personalities.
Within the past five years, filmmaker Kevin Smith, radio and television personality Adam Carolla, and comedian Marc Maron have all began to produce regularly scheduled audio podcasts that have become tremendously successful. So popular are the podcasts that AOL just announced a joint development venture with Smith and Carolla (as well as with comedian/actor Kevin Pollak). According to Amber J. Lawson, Head of Programming, at AOL Media, "The powerhouse trio of Carolla, Pollak and Smith is a great way to establish our late night programming leveraging their rabid built-in audiences to give new and loyal viewers alike a more immersive experience while integrating our internal brands that you already know and love" (“AOL Launches,” 2011).
Scores of online articles and how-to books such as Podcasting for Dummies extol the democratizing open nature of the Internet and encourage anyone with a microphone and a computer to develop their own online radio show (Moore, 2008), (Hudson, 2009). Upon gazing over the podcast landscape, particularly in terms of comedy and entertainment shows, it quickly becomes evident that most of those finding success (a qualification which is discussed below) already have spent time with a foot firmly planted within, and have already developed some level of celebrity in, the realm of more traditional media forms.
This study aims to look into how and why comedy podcasts become successful. By defining what exactly constitutes a podcast and looking into what populations are most actively engaged with the form, along with why and how they use podcasts, a greater understanding of the current landscape will be developed. Three prominent figures within the spectrum of comedy podcasts will be examined in terms of both their approaches as well as how they have managed to successfully use new media to connect with audiences. Finally, the challenge of measuring success in this new and developing field will be considered in an attempt to form conclusions in terms of identifying how and why certain podcasts continue to flourish.
Several theoretical lenses will be used to examine the issues addressed above. Kellner (2009) provides several important ideas about the best way to study the media industries. Here I attempt to take a broad look at comedy podcasting, utilizing many of the techniques that have been popularized for studying media, in what Kellner calls a “critical media/cultural studies approach,” that will seek to theorize “the interconnections between culture and communication,” exploring how they constitute one another (2009). As podcasting represents what amounts to a direct collision between traditional radio broadcasting and delivery via the Internet, I will also rely on Deuze’s conceptions of media convergence. While many new media forms are appropriate venues in which to study theories of convergence, podcasting in particular can be seen as being “based on an increasingly participatory and interactive engagement between different media forms and industries” (Deuze, 2009). Ultimately, I will argue that it is the combination of traditional notions of celebrity within “old” media, as well as extraordinarily savvy and intelligent use of new media that has garnered large audiences and lucrative financial contracts for the top comedy podcasters.
What exactly is a Podcast, Anyway?
Before jumping into the superstars of comedy podcasting, it is important to understand exactly what they are doing, as well as understand the audience they are reaching. The name “podcast” itself can be misleading. While Apple’s ubiquitous iPods can certainly play podcasts, the company’s enormously popular portable devices are not needed to listen to or produce podcasts. According to McClung and Johnson (2010), “Podcasts are audio and video files that can be downloaded to a desktop computer, iPod, or other portable media player for playback later.” While video podcasts are growing in popularity, with hundreds of thousands now available on iTunes alone, it is in the audio arena in which the comedy star has emerged, and on which this study focuses.
The ability to save and play back a podcast later, what has come to be known as “time-shifting,” is one of the form’s most important attributes. Perigoe (2009) explains that podcasts “allow consumers of news or public affairs programming – or any kind of programming for that matter – to download material and consume it at will… The notions of time and space are obliterated with this technology. No longer does the consumer have to be within ‘range’ of the broadcast signal, and remember to listen.” While portable audio devices have allowed consumers to take recordings with them for years, music was far and away the most listened to content. Podcast producers, comedy or otherwise, can focus on current news events, sports, and entertainment, knowing their show can in many cases be downloaded or streamed almost instantaneously, and be updated daily in a manner of seconds. Podcast users can listen to their favorite shows whenever and wherever they want (McClung & Johnson, 2010).
While one may not own their namesake device and still enjoy podcasts, it has been the Apple Corporation through the use of its online iTunes marketplace that has emerged as the number one distributor of podcasts. “With over 100,000 available titles, iTunes is recognized as the leading podcast directory,” according to McClung & Johnson (2010). iTunes also compiles lists of top podcasts based on number of downloads in a plethora of categories ranging from news to education, along with featured content such as the “new and noteworthy” and “staff picks” listings. While iTunes provides the consumer with an accessible and easy to use interface for finding podcast content, it is also one of few gatekeepers with such a large library. As Apple has no real regulatory pressures in terms of podcasts, especially considering that nearly all podcast content is offered free of charge, the company wields a tremendous amount of power in terms of advancing or dashing the hopes and dreams of the next great podcast producer.
The music industry may continue to covet the teen with ear buds jamming out on the bus, but podcast producers have begun to realize they are developing a more mature audience. It is older adults who are making up the largest part of the podcast audience. McClung & Johnson (2010) found that:
People who download podcasts tend to have higher educational levels and earn greater salaries than those who do not use podcasts. Specifically, podcast users are more likely to hold a college degree and live in households that bring in an annual income of at least $75,000. Podcast users are also active social networkers.
While the number of younger listeners continues to grow (see Table 1.1), they make up only a portion of the overall consumer base. The podcast audience, while not long ago made up primarily of “early adopters,” now more closely represents mainstream media consumers (Webster, 2010). Curiously, two separate studies (McClung & Johnson, 2010; & Weber, 2010) concluded that most video and audio podcasts are still watched or listened to on desktop computers as opposed to dedicated media players. It has been indicated, however, that more and more consumers are using their mobile phones to access podcasts while on the go. Additionally, a full “two-thirds of podcast consumers have listened to digital audio files in their vehicles by connecting an iPod or other MP3 player to their car audio system” (Webster, 2010)
Table 1.1
U.S. Podcast Audience, 2008-2013 (millions and % of internet users) Interest in Social Media Features on a TV Among Broadband Households, 18-24 years old:
2008 17.4 (9.0%)
2009 21.9 (11.0%)
2010 26.7 (13.0%)
2011 30.6 (14.5%)
2012 34.6 (16.0%)
2013 37.6 (17.0%)
Note: Internet users who download or stream at least one podcast per month. Source: eMarketer, February 2009 (“Metrics,” 2009).
The New (‘net) Kings of Comedy
As mentioned earlier, a select few podcasts have been able to rise to and maintain consistently high rankings in the comedy category on iTunes. Often, a new podcast will arrive on the scene and become enormously popular, only to see its download numbers drop off do to lack of quality, or in many cases, consistency in publishing new episodes on a regular basis. British comedian Ricky Gervais is an interesting case in that although he has published just eighteen episodes over the past two years, the show has remained extraordinarily popular (Cruz, 2007). Adam Carolla, Kevin Smith, and Marc Maron have all adhered to a consistent method of publishing that keeps them ranked high.
Adam Carolla is probably best known to most American as the co-host of The Man Show, the fairly short-lived but extremely popular Comedy Central series. He is also an accomplished radio host, having worked for years on popular morning shows in Los Angeles, and on the syndicated Love Line with Dr. Drew Pinsky. Shortly after losing his most recent morning radio show, Carolla began to develop his own podcast, which has since garnered huge audiences and grown into an entire network. Transportation Business Journal’s initial report on the AOL comedy podcast deal explains that “ACE Broadcasting, the innovative new media network and brainchild of Carolla and Executive Producer Donny Misraje, came into existence in 2009 with the launch of ‘The Adam Carolla Show,’ which immediately broke download records and made headlines worldwide” (“AOL Launches,” 2011).Carolla’s brand of humor and line-up of shows continues to succeed, often monopolizing iTunes top listings with a diverse roster including “Carcast”; “The Parent Experiment”; “The Film Vault”; and “This Week with Larry Miller.” Episodes of the original “Adam Carolla Show” have been downloaded over 60 million times (“AOL Launches,” 2011).
Filmmaker Kevin Smith had procured a legion of hardcore fans long before he began to develop what is quickly becoming something of a podcast empire. Launching his career with his independent film Clerks, and following it up with several more films set in his self-titled “View Askew Universe,” Smith’s movies and projects found their way from cult favorites to mainstream comic-book geek culture, taking him right alone with them (largely due to his appearances as “Silent Bob” in many of his films). With podcasting, Smith has found a way to connect with his fans while indulging in one of his passions: sitting around talking with friends. Beginning with “Smodcast,” a weekly show in which the director would sit with friend and film producer Scott Mosier and talk about whatever crossed their minds (Hollywood gossip was and remains a favorite topic for the show), Smith began to develop a network of podcasts through friends and acquaintances who were interested in producing their own shows.
Within the past year, Smith has openly stated that he likely will stop making movies to focus on podcasting. He has rented and renovated a large black box theater in Los Angeles, now known as the “Smodcastle” where the network’s shows are recorded live in front of an audience. Journalist Ari Karpel describes the live podcasting theater as the “sanctum sanctorum,” where Smith fans, “get to see the king of the comic book geeks in action” (2011). According to Smith, "Smodcastle is a place to go and try shit out… It's the Little Rascals' backyard tent. 'Let's put on a show!” He continues, "All the fun that went away from the movies is here… No bosses saying, 'You can't do that,' or, this is going to cost too much money” (Karpel, 2011). The director, notorious for his foul mouth and warped sense of humor, reacted to the recent AOL deal by indicating that he is looking “forward to many battles over what’s considered too risqué for their family-oriented service” (AOL Launches,” 2008).
Compared to Carolla and Smith, stand-up comedian Marc Maron is relatively unknown within the popular culture zeitgeist. He has not let that stop him from producing one of the most consistently highly ranked comedy podcasts on iTunes, however. Maron’s success in stand-up reached its peak in the mid 1990s, when he performed regularly in New York City and on Comedy Central (Wolcott, 1995) (Bruckner, 2000). Known for his abrasive, yet self-revealing style, New York Times arts and entertainment writer Dan Saltzstein describes Maron as “A stand-up comic by trade, (who) has cast himself as an unlikely celebrity interviewer -- one who is angry, probing, neurotic and a vulnerable recovering addict” (2011). Podcast listeners have come to expect the host’s bi-weekly accounts of his struggles with depression, anxiety, and relationships, along with incredibly incisive interviews with some of comedy’s biggest stars. Ben Stiller, Judd Apatow, Dane Cook, Robin Williams, Conan O’Brien, and many more have made their way to Maron’s so called “cat ranch,” the garage where he records his show with a couple of microphones and a MacBook.Maron’s podcast, “WTF with Marc Maron” gained a major boost when he interviewed This American Life host Ira Glass, who provided several major plugs for “WTF” within his own sphere of new media. Since then, Maron continues to bring in big names along with big numbers of new listeners.
New Media Navigators
Clearly, each of the successful comedy podcasters above has been aided along the way through their celebrity and proven talent, and in the cases of Carolla and Smith, the financial resources to give the new format a shot. To ignore just how well these comedy stars and their producers have navigated their way through the murky waters of new media distribution and success, however, would be shortsighted. They have managed to unhinge themselves form traditional notions of the ways in which media industries function, allowing them to succeed.
Marshall (2009) points to several aspects of new media that have ultimately aided these podcasters: “The industrial model of the Internet and new media more generally is defined not by its programming, but by its ethos…. There is some sense of exploration in new media where the experience of engagement with the form is not fully defined.” This ethos is seen throughout all three programs mentioned above. It is clear that the hosts are open to things that would simply not be possible in more traditional media environments. Certainly, all manner of language and content that may normally throw up red flags face no such barrier online, yet Smith, Maron, and Carolla have all actively taken on other challenges: extremely long interviews, two-part interviews, failed experimentation, etc. As theorized by Marshall, there is a freedom that emerges for the podcast producer. “These two conceptions of freedom – an idea of something for nothing, and the idea of liberation from the past hierarchies – (leads) to a kind of frivolity that rarely is part of business culture” (2009). Nowhere is this more clearly illustrated then in an interview with Carolla that took place shortly after he started his podcast:
If you start when you want and finish when you want, you've eliminated two-thirds of what people hate about their jobs. All the stuff that sucks about work is the timetable and the boss with the bad ideas he's forcing down your gullet. You remove the Man and the alarm clock and now you're just sitting around talking to people about shit you're interested in (“Adam Carolla,” 2009).
Marshall also sees interactivity as a major component of new media success, explaining, “Interactivity is involved in producing relationships that move between screen and individual divide or interface. Economically, as a new media form, interactivity is an enabler or facilitator that allows for greater self-production/expression” (Marshall, 2009). An extraordinarily high level of interactively exists between the podcast hosts examined here with their fans and listeners.
In Carolla’s direct dialogue with listeners who call in during podcast recordings, Maron’s email correspondence with fans which he talks about at length on his show, and Smith’s banter with listeners via online message boards and Twitter, one can see Deuze’s (2009) conception of convergence culture begin to emerge. “Based on an increasingly participatory and interactive engagement between different media forms and industries,” this culture allows audiences and producers to enter “hybrid spaces” in which they are not hindered in their interactions by “corporate enclosure of the information commons.” On the value of engagement and participation, Jenkins & Green (2009) point out that:
At the most basic level, the distribution and publicity mechanisms of networked computing renders visible the often “invisible” labor fans perform in supporting their favorite properties. Fans act as “grassroots intermediaries,” shaping the circulation of media content at a moment when the industry is concerned about market fragmentation. The result has been a revaluing of fan loyalty and participation based on “affective economics.”
Take for example the series of online animations that has developed in conjunction with Kevin Smith’s Smodcast. Fans have picked moments from their favorite audio podcast episodes to animate visually. Smith was so impressed with the creativity and originality of the pieces that he put them up on the Smodcast website, making directly visible for all listeners the labor fans were performing in support of the show. This “mixed media ecology” may blur the lines between the professional and amateur, yet if other new media producers accept and support the work of these “produsers” as Smith, Carolla, and Maron have, the possibility of tension being created is far outweighed by the benefit to the program (Deuze).
The Challenge of Measuring Success
iTunes rankings provide one measure by which podcasts can be judged. But does number of downloads always equate with success? Generally, quality seems to be the more salient measuring stick, and although academic studies have been done to help individuals identify podcasts they are likely to enjoy (Tsagkias, 2010), there is no one definitive source for podcast evaluation beyond listener reviews. While awards like the Webbys and others are making progress, they have yet to garner the large-scale respect akin to television’s Emmy, film’s Oscar, or radio’s Peabody Awards. One thing that can be looked at in terms of podcasting is monetary gains. Just as download numbers don’t necessarily mean a show is “successful,” the financial gains associated with a show mean different things to different people. Seeing as the comedy podcast producers examined here have all clearly expressed a desire to make money by producing their shows, it seems a fair measuring stick for success.
“WTF,” “The Adam Carolla Show,” and “Smodcast” have all added additional sponsors and advertisers as the shows have gained popularity. Each podcast is now bookended by sponsor messages, and Maron’s show now has several magazine-style breaks featuring sponsor messages. McClung & Johnson (2009) point out that “heavy users show a higher tolerance for podcast advertising as well as greater tendency to support companies who advertise on podcasts.”
Advertisers have taken note. Former MTV VJ and co-founder of online media network Mevio, Adam Curry (sometimes known as the “Podfather” for his role in developing and promoting the format), explains that “because podcasts are episodic and available to subscribers on demand, they earn a level of audience engagement and loyalty that makes the medium increasingly valuable to advertisers looking for reliable properties… Brand advertisers want to move online, but aren't interested in showing up on a video of someone shooting a firecracker out of his butt" (Nagy, 2008). According to Daniel Anstandig of McVay New Media, “As Internet audio grows, advertisers will start to buy advertising only for the subset of listeners that makes the most sense for them” (McBride, 2008).
Along with procuring sponsorships (currently priced at roughly $2,000 per spot), Smith has wasted no time in turning his live podcasts into moneymakers by charging for tickets at the “Smodcastle.” Smith admits that, "We don't have the balls to say, 'Pay what you will as you exit,' like the Little Rascals did… We like to get the money up front. We haven't advertised at all; we're selling out shows simply because of Twitter." According to Smith, "Its shocking how self-sufficient you can be"(Karpel, 2011). The example here speaks to a question posed by Marshall (2009), “Is new media significantly different from its predecessors, or is ‘new’ media just another form of technological hype that drives consumer culture to satisfy its old wants and desires?”
"For as much as I thought, Wow, this is a brand-new world, it's really the same old world," Smith says. "Everyone tries to figure out how to keep it as similar to everything as possible, so this is like TV or radio ad buys" (Karpel, 2011).
Has Anything Really Changed?
So is this really the same old world? Yes and No. New media industries cannot be looked at in the same ways film, television, radio, and publishing have been in the past. The complexities brought up here simply in terms of the audio podcast speak to how an understanding of the ways in which media industries works needs to be consistently evolving, especially in the age of the Internet. Media producers like those producing the comedy podcasts discussed above now face the burden of not only promotion and marketing, but an increased level of interactivity with fans and their culture at large, whether that means answering emails, taking to Twitter, publishing content more often, or getting bigger guests to interview.
Though many thousands of talented hopefuls may be toiling in front of Garage Band editing their next great podcast, and one may make it big (just as Kevin Smith managed to do with Clerks during a much different era), the Internet has not yet become the democratizing power idealists may have hoped for. Talent and drive is important, none of the producers discussed above would be successful without it, but notoriety, connections, and a fat pocketbook still play a major role in making it in the world of comedy podcasting.
